Curse

Charqus · Dec 17, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I thought factions was abit crap tbh bar AB's which are awesome. Nightfall totaly kicked Factions ass and I don't see how people say different. Nightfall is just 100x better PVE wise...

ensoriki · Dec 17, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charqus

I thought factions was abit crap tbh bar AB's which are awesome. Nightfall totaly kicked Factions ass and I don't see how people say different. Nightfall is just 100x better PVE wise...

no... just no
The best part of Nightfall is Tihark Orchard.
Thats 1 of the reasons I like it more than prophecies
Tihark and the Dervish.
If tihark was in any other campaign, and the dervish in any other.
Nightfall could jump off a cliff and I couldn't care less.

Factions>nightfall>prophecrap

Magikarp · Dec 17, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

no... just no
The best part of Nightfall is Tihark Orchard.
Thats 1 of the reasons I like it more than prophecies
Tihark and the Dervish.
If tihark was in any other campaign, and the dervish in any other.
Nightfall could jump off a cliff and I couldn't care less.

Factions>nightfall>prophecrap

Factions>Gwen>Proph>Nf

screw dervishes. waste of melee spot.... in my opinion.. :P

Mordakai · Dec 17, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

I was going to stay away, but I can't help commenting:

All the Chapters are good and bad.

Prophecy was the first, and so holds a special place for me. I love pre-searing Ascalon, it's the first place (ever!) in a video game that felt fun just to hang around. Going across the wall hunting with some random stranger actually works, for some stange reason, unlike later Missions which seem to attract the worst people on the internet.

Of course, now I can't be bothered to make a character in Prophecy b/c getting the Attribute quest is such a pain in the butt...

Factions has the easiest leveling of any campaign, but also has one of the worst storylines. Your characters are relegated to playing sidekick to Mhenlo and Togo. I kept expecting some twist in the plot, like all the sub-plots and twists in Prophecies, but alas, it was not to happen... Shiro is "evil" (or mislead, whatever) and we kill him.

I had high hopes for Nightfall: The idea of customized Heros appealed to me, and the plot of the game, with a sixth god and all sounded epic enough.

The problem for me was that Nightfall ruined everything that sounded good: Heroes are required at certain points in the game, forcing you to use a hero that was not leveled up and/or properly equipped. The main story goes on WAY too long.... we know Varesh is evil and is conquering the world with demons, and it takes way too long to convince eveyone else that "yes, really, this is happening" only to have to defeat Varesh by ourselves anyway! (why we can't do this at the very beginning, is just bad plotting / scripting that really doesn't make any sense). I've never even finished Nightfall... that's how much I hate it.

Eye of the North: Pros: New Heros, fast paced story, decent voiceacting, great graphics.

Cons: Mostly reskinned armor, pets, weapons, and monsters. Very little "new content". Dungeons were a let down.

Martin Alvito · Dec 17, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

The problem with Factions is that the first half of the game was Secret of the Silver Blades revisited. And that was a weak gold box AD&D game 15 years ago.

(If you aren't old like me, and don't know what i'm talking about, go search 'AD&D gold box'.)

Here's the level design of the first half of Factions:

'Hmm, let's make a GIGANTIC MAZE and have scripted encounters in it! Then let's make the player go through the SAME areas OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER and have DIFFERENT SCRIPTED ENCOUNTERS! That'll make a satisfying game!'

Or, to put it another way, Cantha's level design is no different than that of Wizardry 1, except they use the same maze for different quests.

Copying your base game design from games that were made 15-25 years ago is usually pretty fail. When it works, it works. Diablo is at its core a much more sophisticated game of Gauntlet; the never-ending cycle of top-shelf FPS games are all, at their heart, DOOM with graphics, physics and gameplay improvements. But for every success story like this, there are 40 games in the bargain bin.

Game companies make retreads work with significant gameplay changes that add depth. Factions did none of this, and its PvE is epic fail as a consequence.

Fril Estelin · Dec 18, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The problem with Factions is that the first half of the game was Secret of the Silver Blades revisited. And that was a weak gold box AD&D game 15 years ago.

(If you aren't old like me, and don't know what i'm talking about, go search 'AD&D gold box'.)

I'm old "like you", I've played AD&D but not this one (ADD is not my kind of RPG) and you fail to explain how they copied this for factions map design. It's easy to draw comparisons (what about Star Wars' Death Star, see the RPG companion?) but much more difficult to justify it, so at least (in particular given you age) try!

The maze aspect of the maps is clearly was sets factions apart from the other campaigns+extension, and IMO a great addition, though sometimes painful

.

murtagh deadmoon · Dec 18, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34

I can't say i particularly enjoyed factions but it gave me my favourite profession, the assassin, and the reason i didn't enjoy it was the low suitability of this profession when you were fighting afflicted. Moving along, I hope this doesn't mean i can't play an Assassin in GW2. Anyone got some info on this aspect?

legion_rat · Dec 18, 2007, 01:27 PM // 13:27

I liked factions, I would hate to see it go. I get lost there due to the maps but other than that i liked it there.

~the rat~

william1975 · Dec 18, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

I very rarely got lost in factions, only one map gave me a headache and that was Arborstone, which when you are tryign to get the quest done for uncovering the map ares is a pain

I liked the change from Prophicies to factions goign from huge maps of open spacesto a city with narrow winding routes. with the locked gates I was happy too, it prevented seeing level 2 charcters at the endgame desperate to join your group.

Storywise i personally woudl have liked a bit longer with more depth, i still feel sorry for Shiro though.

freekedoutfish · Dec 18, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

I liked factions, I would hate to see it go. I get lost there due to the maps but other than that i liked it there.

~the rat~

If factions was such a monumental disaster, then explain the huge numbers of people who play AB every single day and get alot of joy and pleasure out of doing it.

Explain why the noob island of cantha and the capital is still heaving with players!

The only issue with factions was the gates and the lack of open-endedness, and having to buy all your skills. If it hadnt been for that, the game would have been alot better then it was and welcomed a lot more. The fact you can create a lvl20 pve character in factions within a day or two is one of its major selling points.

Nightfall by comparison had a lot more issues and it still does. The ROT alone was just a major "long sausage shaped apendix"-up and (IMO) just a bad excuse to add over powered creatures into the game to satisfy the "make the game harder" crowd.

In reality NF went from easy > hard within entering the ROT and it was a shock to alot of players including myself. There was no casual flow and increase in difficulty. It was sudden and unexpected.

This is one reason i have not made a new character in NF because I simply dont want to play the ROT again. The end missions are fine, but the ROT and the quests there are just frustrating. The elite missions there are also just over-kill with difficulty and again trying to feed the those who want harder content.

Where as in factions most content and creatures were lvl18+ and it progressed steadily until you had lvl20+. It wasnt hard, but it wasnt hugely easy either and you knew what was what.

I have created all my new characters (which I kept) since prophercies in factions. I only took my existing char through nightfall and when I attempted to make a mesmer there it got deleted after I got bored.

I just cannot stomach the thought of going through the ROT in NF again, because I found it frustrating the first time. Factions was also easier to explore, easier to cap elite skills, more fun missions and quests. All-in-all a better all-rounded game IMO which felt more satisfying to complete.

I also think factions had the nicer armor myself. The primevil armor for male elementals in NF was just an absolute joke!

bebe · Dec 18, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I only like factions because of the Armor.. Factions IMO had the best armor sets out of all the campaigns.. But the storyline pretty much is poop. xD

Rachel Crow · Dec 18, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Where the heck is that article anyway with all the story line in gw2

Fril Estelin · Dec 18, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachel Crow

Where the heck is that article anyway with all the story line in gw2

You mean this one?

Rachel Crow · Dec 18, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Oh yeah, why do I hate factions, lets see, Asian inspired, No Black Hair Option!

Yeah, because nobody in Asia has black hair. Also, nikku looked cool on the box, but then I couldn't make any characters that didn't look drunk.

Rachel Crow · Dec 18, 2007, 06:39 PM // 18:39

I think that is the one, now I must go read ty for link.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

You mean this one?

Magikarp · Dec 18, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Here's the level design of the first half of Factions:

'Hmm, let's make a GIGANTIC MAZE and have scripted encounters in it! Then let's make the player go through the SAME areas OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER and have DIFFERENT SCRIPTED ENCOUNTERS! That'll make a satisfying game!'

Or, to put it another way, Cantha's level design is no different than that of Wizardry 1, except they use the same maze for different quests.

Copying your base game design from games that were made 15-25 years ago is usually pretty fail. When it works, it works. Diablo is at its core a much more sophisticated game of Gauntlet; the never-ending cycle of top-shelf FPS games are all, at their heart, DOOM with graphics, physics and gameplay improvements. But for every success story like this, there are 40 games in the bargain bin.

Game companies make retreads work with significant gameplay changes that add depth. Factions did none of this, and its PvE is epic fail as a consequence.

none of what you said was even readable. it didnt make sense, and wasnt funny.

i still dont see how "confusing" the maps of Cantha were, but i can only assume i was lucky enough to figure out correct ways to get places the first time, then just remember them or something. the maps i hated were in NF. "Crossing the Desolation" (you had to take, yes HAD to take stupid Zhed, to track Palawa, to find out more stupid crap we already knew), took me almost an hour the first time, because the map literally had huge dead end cliffs, and in fact, 4 in a row. on the map, it looked like huge walkways.. wrong.. you had to pretty much recross the entire map of Kourna to get to the place with a bridge to continue, and even then, you were only 1/4 of the way there, and that was WITH taking the nearest zoning point. not really all that confusing, but i loathe walking forever in a video game.

also, hi Rachel Crow. you're in my guild

Fril Estelin · Dec 18, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

i still dont see how "confusing" the maps of Cantha were, but i can only assume i was lucky enough to figure out correct ways to get places the first time, then just remember them or something. the maps i hated were in NF.

Honestly, some places were you had the Am Fah were really like a maze. I remember that not far from the entrance to the Undercity, you had a few "streets" at different levels, and when looking at the map you'd see zone entrance that weren't in front of you, or streets that were actually above or beneath you. Once you get used to this, I think it's fun, because it's a small additional challenge and it makes Factions so distinct from the other games.

Similarly, the quest tied to a hero were a bit annoying at the beginning, but you get used to it.

WinterSnowblind · Dec 18, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

also, im not the only one who plays GWs that feels as though the TEAM game lost most of its strong TEAM community when Heroes were added. it was like a boot kicking all cooperation of the casual players out the window.

No you're not, but it doesn't make it any more correct. Even before Nightfall was released it was very difficult to find a team for completing certain missions, you could be waiting hours just for a Monk to join. Heroes eliminated that, plus it made more accessable to those who prefer to play without other people. Guild Wars was alwas advertised as a game you could play yourself, not just with others, and that was something that was pretty much impossible to actually do before Heroes.

But hell, I'd even take Henchmen over random pugs. But if you still want to team up with other human players, then join a guild that does so, there's plenty of them out there.

Theus · Dec 18, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Faction's was better than Nightfall.

The Canthan province in general kicks Nightfall's Bland oh hey everythings brown now its black and yellow OH SHIT MAN NOW ITS BLACK AND PURPLE,HOYL GAWD DAWG ITS RED AND BLACK SO SWET!1!1

The only area in the whole entirety of Nightfall that was worth looking at was Mehtani Keys,and the Tihark Orchard.

Mordakai · Dec 18, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

none of what you said was even readable. it didnt make sense, and wasnt funny.

i still dont see how "confusing" the maps of Cantha were, but i can only assume i was lucky enough to figure out correct ways to get places the first time, then just remember them or something. the maps i hated were in NF. "Crossing the Desolation" (you had to take, yes HAD to take stupid Zhed, to track Palawa, to find out more stupid crap we already knew), took me almost an hour the first time, because the map literally had huge dead end cliffs, and in fact, 4 in a row. on the map, it looked like huge walkways.. wrong.. you had to pretty much recross the entire map of Kourna to get to the place with a bridge to continue, and even then, you were only 1/4 of the way there, and that was WITH taking the nearest zoning point. not really all that confusing, but i loathe walking forever in a video game.

Holy crap, I almost forgot about that... it didn't take 4 hours but it sure felt like it.

But, I had the same problem in Factions: I would go where the star was, only to realize I was above or below it, and had to retrace my steps back to the ramps! Or, how about what looks like a bridge, but no, it's destroyed.

I've gotten used to Factions now, but I remember it being very frustrating in the beginning... Guild Wars mini-maps were not designed for multiple levels.